市長也塞車!——吳伯雄談市政

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1989 / 3月

文‧吳伯雄口述陳錦華整理 圖‧王煒昶


「從政至今,我演過很多角色,做過省議員、縣長,也賣過煙酒(公賣局長)、管過鈔票(銀行董事長)……」

 

倍受矚目的台北市長吳伯雄上任已半年多了,這些日子以來他的想法和作法有什麼改變?且聽聽他自己怎麼說:


自從我上任以來,一直以整頓交通為第一要務,而這也是記者先生們最常問的問題。我的回答總是把數據攤開來,讓大家去打分數。

目前台北市的車輛比一年前多了十萬輛,如果去年九月不整頓,各位可以想像現在交通癱瘓的程度;去年十二月,交通局曾對一些主要幹道作測試,結果顯示,雖然車輛數增加了,但走完一條路的時間,是減少了。以民權東路、忠孝東路為例,去年十一月的平均行車時速為十五、十五點七;今年一月為廿四、廿六點六。而由車禍死傷人數來看去年九至十二月,因車禍死傷人數為七十四人,比前年同期減少了卅八人。而我最感安慰的是,這其中市府沒增加一個警察,完全靠民間計程車綠十字服務隊和義警的協助。

市長也塞車

當然不少人說風涼話,認為整頓交通沒效果,頂多是五分鐘熱度。我覺得這對冒風雨支援的義警、綠十字隊員是不公平的,我向大家保證,整頓交通會持之以恆,愈做愈好的。

以現有的條件來說,對於交通整頓我們已盡全力了。還有不足之處,就是很多硬體設備,發包得還不夠快,將來交通號誌系統,全部要電腦化,而這個電腦工程的完成,需要三年。

目前我們也在鼓勵興建停車場,採取幾個措施:如建築物的底樓若興建停車場,其容積率的計算,可予優待;另外,也在興建臨時性的鐵塔停車場。

當然根本解決的方法,還是讓大家儘量少開車,因此大眾捷運系統一定要快快完成。在此之前公車系統更得加強,像路線的規劃就非常重要。我們現在有路線調整委員會,希望儘量協調各家公車,把路線拉直、減少重覆。公車問題還得靠市民從觀念改起。我常覺得台北市民太嬌寵了,要大家多走幾步路都不肯,結果是汽車到處停,到處造成擁塞。

對交通問題我特別要強調一點,市長與市民絕對站在一條線上的。

每天早上,我雖有市府的車來接我上班,但顯然不會有開導車,我跟大家一樣也會碰到塞車。我家在金華國中附近,從那到市府的路並不遠,運氣好一路綠燈,約花個十五分鐘,一遇到塞車也要半小時。遇到塞車時我著急得不得了,倒不是因為浪費了我的時間,而是不知此時有多少人在車上罵我呢?!

多種一棵算一棵

交通問題外,我想不少人都在擔心台北市空氣品質。

根據環保局的統計,台北市百分之九十以上的空氣污染,是車輛造成的,剩下的才是工廠、工地;目前最迫切的,是如何讓現有汽、機車的排氣可以控制在一個標準。

前一陣子,我們發動了一家大摩托車製造廠,免費為機車作測試,不及格的,馬上予以調整;汽車方面,現在比較可以說的是,相關的法令已經訂定了,希望大家能嚴格遵守;但這些都是治標,治本還是在大眾捷運系統完成後,才能讓大家不去開車。

像日本東京,家庭擁有汽車數比我們多,但他們把汽車當做假日休閒用的工具,百分之七十以上的市民坐電車上班,即便是總經理、董事長也一樣。

造成空氣污染的另一個原因,則是綠地太少。目前不少公園正在開闢,民國七十八年九百多億台幣徵收公共設施預定地的經費,公園徵收就佔了第一位。除了加強公園地徵收開發外,我們也計畫收購水門外河川地。另外,我堅決堅持台北市周邊保護區絕不開發;在一些小的地方,我們採取多一棵樹算一棵的方法,比如各個學校校園及操場,我們鼓勵大家能種樹就種樹、能植草就植草;而像陽台綠化、屋頂花園,還有行道樹的認養等宣導活動是從沒間斷過的。

把道理說清楚

在處理市政時,我常有一種感覺,許多事情原來其實都是很簡單的道理,只是「積非成是」,才使問題更形複雜。

像交通問題,目前我們正在做的騎樓、人行道整頓工作,我常常就講,政府絕不只是站在對立的立場,一味取締,而是希望藉此把道理說清楚,如此佔用騎樓是不應該的,會造成別人的不方便。希望大家來協助、參與,給別人方便。

也許有人會說,騎樓、人行道的整頓,其實都是治標的工作。我的看法是,沒有治標的工作,就爭取不到治本的時間。以交通來說,像東西向快速道路、捷運系統,最快也要三、四年,而對台北市民來說,這段期間相當痛苦,需要大家來配合。

有人願意住在台北市,是因為子女教育、生活購物方便、就業機會較多,這是它的優點;反之,因為大家都湧入了台北,就要付出髒亂、生活品質不佳等代價,這是它的缺點。如何降低它的缺點、開發它的優點,便是我們努力的方向。

另外,我覺得台北市的精神與物質生活有脫節現象,這是我們要特別警覺的事情。有時我笑朋友,手上戴的名錶愈來愈貴,但守時觀念愈來愈差,這是很要命的事。我也常常在想,以台北人的消費能力,應該有能力培養更深的文化內涵。問題就在如何做,台北總不能只是有個「暴發戶」的形象,這點值得思考。

「老是」強調不競選?

自從事公職以來,大家對我個人的興趣似乎十分濃厚,有次電視訪問我,說我交遊四海,知己滿天下,其實我那有這樣,我有時只是覺得身為公僕,身段偶爾要調整調整而已,也就因為如此,我也不避諱在大庭廣眾間說話、談笑,偶爾也唱唱歌。(編按:去年十月,吳伯雄市長在金龍獎頒獎典禮之前的「金龍禮讚」活動中,高歌一曲,為金龍獎募得二百六十萬元。)

我宣佈不參加今年年底民選市長的競選,也有很多人關心,還有人告訴我說:市長,你為何老是強調不競選。我要澄清一點,我沒有「強調」,但「老是」有人問我這個問題,我當然就照實答覆了。因為我的答案始終是一致的,就造成刻意強調的印象。

其實我只是覺得,台北市問題這麼多,我每天上班十幾個小時,用在公事上的時間都不夠分配了,實在沒有時間再分身出來為選舉舖路,或為選票奔波;更重要的是,若要大刀闊斧去改革,必得排除人情壓力,一旦我有選舉的念頭,就必須去考慮選票,在這當兒我實在沒法去考慮這些事。更何況,以台北市長候選者來說,我覺得很多人主客觀條件都比我合適。

不是博士但最「博」

不管競不競選台北市長,我向市民保證,我做一天會掌握一天,希望把市政的推動加速。至於繼不繼續當市長並不是很重要的,因為以台北市來說,市長可以變,市政推展的方向是不會變的。市長只是處理、執行計畫,及推動而已,我可以保證,要講全力加速來推動的話,在我這一棒不會跑得太慢。

擔任市長以來,我一天約睡六、七小時,工作壓力很大,但煩惱絕不帶回家。我的太太曾說,我未處理完的公文,機要人員得用車子「搬」回家的,這是事實。但我都是選擇在頭腦清楚時,如早上上班前傷腦筋。工作雖忙,運動卻不曾間斷,除在家堨揖漭膆~,偶爾太太也會拖我出去打羽毛球。一個禮拜約有二、三個晚上在家吃晚飯,星期天至少有半天是留給自己的,多半回中壢看我父親。我父親今年九十多歲了,他始終在很多方面支持我,讓我沒有後顧之憂。他目前身體雖然還算健康,但作子女的陪他的時間太少,總覺得愧疚。

談起家裡,我從政多少受到家裡影響,廿九歲當省議員,憑良心講是家中的背景選上的;卅三歲當縣長,則是靠我自己了,一般人以為我家是企業家或是所謂的政治世家,其實我家是書香之家,我的祖父是秀才出身的,中壢好多老一輩的人年輕時學漢文,都是我祖父的門生,而現在,我家一坐下來,有好幾個博士,也有院士。我常開玩笑說,我不是博士,不是院士,但我最「博」。

能讀書時請多讀書

我沒有往學界發展,大概我也不是讀書的料子。但憑良心說,愈到社會做事愈須要讀書,能讀書時奉勸大家多多讀書。但話說回來,學識的觀念,除了有計畫的讀書外,平常的工作累積,也是學識,我現在因為工作之餘剩下的時間不多,因此只能就工作範圍有關去吸收。

從政至今,我扮演過很多角色,做過省議員、縣長,也「賣過煙酒」——當過菸酒公賣局局長,當過銀行董事長、中國國民黨中央委員會秘書處主任、內政部長等。這一、廿年走來,感覺是自己沒有白活,歷練也增加很多。我應該說是很幸運,在這麼多優秀人材中,每次都有機會來擔任重要的工作,像在內政部四年二個月任內,從解嚴、開放探親,從中央民意代表到村里長,大大小小的選舉都給我碰上了,這些都可以說是極具艱鉅的工作。我一向覺得自己算是很有點使命感的,若不是使命感支持,工作是相當辛苦。我總覺得人的一生能有這樣的機遇,就應該好好珍惜,希望在人生的幾十年中,能多留一些痕跡,也不是說不求什麼,只是家中事情都有人代為操勞,我沒有後顧之憂,就更希望能做出一些東西來。

看看台北、想想自己

至於台北市長這個職位,我總覺得論起做事,台北市長的確是個做事的位置。

與內政部長相較,內政部的事情層次比較高,牽涉到法令、政治層面的較多,台北市則是事務性的,因為分層負責,事情到我這兒,都是頭痛的問題。我常笑說,若不樂觀些,太神經質的話,這工作是幹不來的。尤其在社會正值轉型期的今天,很多事情外頭看不出來,只是個正常運作都要付出很多心血,像春節期間要維持物資正常供應、公車順暢,或者是清潔工作做的很好,一切正常時大家不覺得什麼,但「維持正常」的背後有多少人頭痛、操心大家卻不知了。當台北市長後,在許多場合,大家會跑來找我說長說短,感覺上跟大家的距離更近了。

對台北市民,我有很多期許,簡單地說,主要是希望很多事大家一起來做。當大家埋怨交通不好時,想想看自己有沒有不守交通規矩?有沒有爭先恐後?埋怨看不到綠意之時,想想看自己陽台為綠化盡了多少心力?埋怨環境髒亂時,想想看自己家倒垃圾有沒按規矩來?市長絕非萬能,如果每人都做好份內的事,那我們當公僕的推動起來,也就更容易一些。

〔圖片說明〕

P.88

整頓交通要靠市民共襄盛舉。圖為義警綠十字服務隊員在指揮交通。

P.89

「在我這一棒,台北不會跑太慢」,吳伯雄保證。

P.90

讓台北綠起來——繼交通整頓後,吳伯雄再度出擊。(鄭元慶攝)

P.92

台北,加油!吳伯雄在台北國際馬拉松頒獎儀式中致詞。(張良綱攝)

P.93

市府舉辦的古蹟巡禮活動,廣受民眾喜愛。圖為迪化街參觀行程。

相關文章

近期文章

EN

The Mayor Gets Caught in Traffic Jams, Too!

Jackie Chen /photos courtesy of Wei-chang Wang /tr. by Phil Newell

Wu Po-hsiung, the much watched mayor of Taipei City, has already been at this post for half a year now. What kinds of changes have there been in his way of thinking and work style over the past half year? Have a listen to what he himself has to say.


Since taking office, my number one job has always been getting traffic in order. This is the issue about which reporters ask me most frequently. My answer is always to reveal the statistics, and let everyone assign their own grades.

Since last year, the number of cars in Taipei has increased by 100,000. If last September nothing had been done, everybody can imagine the degree of traffic headaches now. Last December the Bureau of Traffic did an investigation of major routes. The results show that although the number of vehicles has increased, the time taken to finish a route has been reduced. And deaths and injuries have been reduced. Most satisfying is that the city government has not needed to add one extra policeman. Everything has relied on the private taxi drivers' Green Cross organization and volunteer police.

Of course many people still complain, but this is unfair to those volunteers who brave the weather. I guarantee everyone, the putting in order of traffic will be carried out permanently, and the more that is done, the better it will get.

The problems now are hardware; construction is not fast enough. In the future the traffic signal system will be completely computerized, which will take three years. We are also encouraging construction of new parking lots, and temporary high-rise lots in the meantime.

Of course the fundamental solution is to allow people to drive less. The mass transit system must be finished quickly. Before this, the bus system must be strengthened, and routes rationalized. I often feel that Taipei people are spoiled; you want them to walk a few steps and they aren't willing. They just park anywhere and create traffic jams.

I want to stress one point about the traffic situation--the mayor and the city residents are all on the same side. I get caught in traffic jams, too. It makes me extremely anxious, not because I am wasting time, but because I don't know how many people are in their cars cursing me!

Aside from the traffic problem, I think that many people are concerned about air quality in Taipei City. According to statistics of the Environmental Protection Department, more than ninety percent of the air pollution in Taipei City is created by vehicles. Only the remainder is by factories or construction sites. At present, the most urgent thing is how to make the exhaust fumes from cars and motorcycles be controlled within a certain standard.

Recently, we started up a large motorcycle manufacturing factory, which will test motor cycles at no cost. Those that are unqualified will be immediately adjusted. As for cars, now you can say that the relevant law has already been set. I hope that everyone will strictly respect it. But this is just coping with the symptoms. The cure of the root of the problem is for the mass transit system to be finished quickly, then this will allow people not to drive.

Another reason for air pollution is that there are too few green areas. Currently, many parks are being opened. In several small places, we have adopted the method that planting one more tree still counts as one more tree. And for every school campus and playground, we encourage trees and grass to be planted wherever it is possible. And we encourage people to greenify their balconies, rooftop gardens, and to "adopt a sidewalk tree"; guidance activities such as these have never been interrupted.

In handling the city government, I often have a feeling that many matters really have a simple rationality to them; it's only that "incorrect assumptions" make problems become more complicated.

Like the traffic problem. Currently we are clearing up the aroades and sidewalks. I have often said, the government absolutely does not only stand in opposition and bans everything, but hopes to use reason to explain things clearly. And so it is that taking up the arcades is something that should not be done; it will create inconvenience for others. I hope everyone will cooperate and participate and make things convenient for others.

A great many people desire to live in Taipei City, because of education for their children, because life and buying things are convenient, because there are numerous job opportunities . . . these are its advantages. On the other hand, because everyone pours into Taipei, they pay the price of a lower quality of life, of dirt and pollution. How to decrease these weaknesses and develop strengths is the direction in which we are striving.

In addition, I feel that there is a disconnection between the spiritual and material life in Taipei City. This is the matter about which we must be especially awakened. Sometimes I laugh at my friends. They wear watches that are more and more expensive, but their outlook on punctuality is worse and worse. I often think that we should be able to develop deeper culture using the consuming power of Taipei residents. But the problem is how to do it. Taipei cannot just go "nouveau riche." This point deserves thought.

Many people are concerned that I announced I will not participate in the elections for Taipei City mayor at the end of this year. People still say to me, Mayor, why have you stressed that you will not run for so long. I want to clarify this point; I have not "stressed," but it has been for "a long time." Some people ask me this question, I naturally respond truthfully. Because my answer has always been the same, it gives the impression that I am deliberately stressing it.

In fact, it's just that I feel that Taipei City has many problems. I work every day for more than ten hours. There is not enough time to distribute for my official duties. So I have no time to lay the groundwork to run in the election. Not to mention the fact that, as far as the candidates for mayor are concerned, I feel that there are many whose subjec tive and objective conditions are more appropriate than mine.

But regardless of whether or not I run, I guarantee the people of Taipei that I will tackle each day I have the job, and hope to quicken the work of city government. Whether or not I continue as mayor is not important, because for Taipei, the mayor may change, but the direction of city government will not.

Since becoming mayor I sleep six or seven hours a night. The work is high pressure, but I don't bring my troubles home. Even if documents come home, I wait until before work in the morning when I'm thinking most clearly to see them. I have never stopped exercising, playing ping-pong and bad-minton with my wife. I eat at home two or three times a week. I leave half of Sunday to myself, and mostly go back to Chungli to visit my father. He is over ninety years old and has given me constant support in many ways. Although he is healthy, the time I spend with him is still too little, and I feel ashamed.

I never developed towards academics, perhaps I haven't the right stuff for studying. But the more one gets involved in working in society, the more one needs to study. I encourage those who have the time to study a little more. But to come back, accumulated experience from ordinary work is also knowledge. Because there is little extra time in my job, I can only absorb the part that is related to the scope of my work.

In my career I have had many roles--provincial assemblyman, county magistrate, head of the Taiwan Alcohol and Tobacco Monopoly Bureau, chairman of the board of a bank, chief of the Secretariat of the Kuomintang Central Committee, and Minister of the Interior. I should say I am very lucky, because I have had the chance to get involved in impor tant work, such as the lifting of martial law and overseeing national and local elections in my four years and two months as Minister of the Interior. I hope that I will be able to leave behind some marks.

As for the post of mayor of Taipei, it is certainly an action job. Problems that come to me are all real headaches. There are many things you can't see from the outside. Even normal func tions require blood and sweat. For example, at Chinese New Year, maintaining stable prices, smoothing out transportation, or cleaning up are all things people don't think about. But "maintaining normalcy" requires a lot of effort behind the scenes.

I have great expectations for the people of Taipei. Simply put, the main hope is that everyone will work together in many things. If you complain about traffic, think to yourself, do I respect the traffic laws? If you complain there is no greenery, then ask, has my balcony been "greenified"?

A mayor is not omnipotent. If every one will do his or her part, then when we public officials promote things, things will be a little easier.

[Picture Caption]

Resolving the traffic problem requires everyone's cooperation; the photo is of a volunteer member of the Green Cross directing traffic.

"In my leg of the relay, Taipei will not run too slowly," guarantees Wu Po-hsiung.

Let's make Taipei green--after putting traffic in better order, Wu Po-hsiung is once more on the offensive. (photo by Arthur Cheng)

Taipei, get going! Wu Po-hsiung speaks at the award ceremony at the Taipei International Marathon. (photo by Vincent Chang)

The tours of historical relics sponsored by the city government met with an excellent reception from the citizens. The picture is of the observation route on Tihwa Street.

 

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