Q: After all the senior legislators step down at the end of the year, the Legislative Yuan will consist solely of members elected on Taiwan. What kind of changes do you think that will mean? And what sort of understanding should the members have who carry on the baton?

A: It's going to mark an extremely important change in the political environment. With the departure of the senior legislators, who were elected by all the provinces and peoples of the mainland and who represent each area of the entire country, I'm very concerned that our mainland policy will veer off course, because the supplementary legislators remaining don't have any mainland experience and always put Taiwan first.

I hope that once they take over they'll look at the big picture and carefully map out a policy toward the mainland. Because when you get right down to it, Taiwan has to lay its future hopes and aims on the mainland--it doesn't have a lot of resources and its population already exceeds 20 million. On the other hand, its land surface may be just 3 percent of the mainland's and its population 2 percent, but its GNP is one third, so there's no reason for us to be on the defensive in cross-strait relations--in fact, we're even in a position to lead.

Two Years of Bearing the Brunt

Q: People are also worried that a Legislative Yuan made up entirely of supplementally elected members, even though they may have a stronger foundation of voter support, will also have close ties with interest groups. How do you think this problem can be nipped in the bud?

A: Supplementary legislators have to raise campaign funds, and they can hardly get by without the support of interest groups. I'm not opposed to that, and I'm not here to castigate interest groups. But legislators have to be sure they aren't blinded by private interest or lose sight of the concept of protecting the nation and the public and maintaining rule by law. Even if you're a legislator from a local area, you have to think of yourself as representing the citizenry as a whole, and you have to consider the interests of the people of all Taiwan and the mainland in policy making.

Q: In your nearly two years as president, the Legislative Yuan has seen the greatest changes in its power structure, the roughest set-tos and the harshest criticisms of its efficiency ever. As a senior legislator, you yourself have become a target of attack and abuse. Could you talk about the attitude you have toward presiding over it?

A: Since elected president of the Legislative Yuan on February 27 last year, I have presided over four sessions. During this time, the opposition party has risen rapidly, the ruling party has been vigorously reformed, the Emergency Decree has been abolished and newspaper restrictions have been lifted--a floodgate has been opened on public opinion, and order and discipline in the yuan itself have been shaken.

Senior legislators, including myself, have naturally enough been under siege by the supplementary legislators. Some of them have reviled me and called me an "old thief" as soon as they take the podium or even doused me with water or slapped me. You could say the last two years have been the least dignified time of my life.

Stepping Down According to the Law

Some people say if I had retired earlier I wouldn't have gotten into these scrapes. I know the trend of the times wants us out, and I'm not so young anymore and would like to step down. But we senior legislators were elected according to the law and we want to step down according to the law. All 82 of us have decided to perform our duties until the very last day, not a day more or a day less. Even though the senior members of the National Assembly and the Control Yuan are retiring on December 16th, we insist on staying until the 31st. It's not that we want an extra 15 days. It's just that we insist on local principles.

Q: Back when you were the vice secretary general and the secretary-general of the KMT's Central Policy Coordination Committee, you used to serve as a channel of communication between the ruling party and the opposition and had an image of broadmindedness, of being the "communication minister." You also served as a defense attorney for Lei Chen and Peng Ming-min. Now that you're president of the Legislative Yuan, many supplementary legislators and members of the media feel that your standpoint has become more conservative. What's the reason?

A: I was born in Manchuria in 1920. When I was young, the Japanese occupied it and set up the puppet state of Manchukuo. I was sentenced to 12 years in prison for resistance and spent three years behind bars. That experience is seared in my heart, and I've always believed in fighting for human rights, rule by law, freedom and democracy.

In the Legislative Yuan, I have constantly aimed at realizing these beliefs. Besides defending Lei Chen and Peng Ming-min, I've selflessly fought for revising the law on criminal appeals, for regulations on human rights, for freedom of the press, and so forth. When I was vice secretary-general and secretary-general of the Policy Coordination Committee, I kept in such close contact with figures outside the party that some people accused me of colluding with Kang Ning-hsiang. They called me "Collaborator" Liang and him "Double Agent" Kang. And now we've ended up as the most conservative elements of each party.

My Own Beliefs Haven't Changed

In fact, my beliefs about fighting for democracy haven't changed one iota. It's the times that have changed. I was active in facilitating the founding of the opposition party back at the time, so if they take actions that endanger the nation and the people, won't I become a criminal of the people myself? If they don't respect the rule of law or identify with the nation anymore and start to mess around with Taiwan independence, then of course I'm going to fight to put a stop to it. They think my standpoint has changed, but actually I've been completely consistent.

Q: In one more month you'll leave the Legislative Yuan, in which you've served for more than 40 years. Could you tell us about your plans for the future?

A: Even though I'll leave my post in the Legislative Yuan, I'll still bear some modest responsibility for the fate of the nation, and I'll continue to fight for my principles. I'll still be a member of the KMT Central Committee, where I'll do my best to speak out within the scope of my duties.

I was interviewed a couple of days ago by a British reporter who asked me whether I'd go back to the mainland after stepping down. My answer was, "I'll never go back unless the Communists renounce communism." Yet I believe that in ten years' time I'll definitely be able to.

A Lifetime of Struggle

Q: Word has it that you have two plans in mind after stepping down: one is to start up a law firm and the other is to write your autobiography.

A: I'm only exploring the idea. It's not a fixed plan. But I divide my life up into stages--the first 25 years resisting Japan in Manchuria, the second 25 struggling away in the early days of the Legislative Yuan and now the last 25, when I earned my law doctorate in Japan and served as president of the Legislative Yuan, which are drawing to a close. In the years left over, I'll continue to fight for my principles with like-minded comrades of the same ideals.

[Picture Caption]

With the retirement of the senior legislators at the end of December, scenes like this will become a thing of the past (photo by Leon).

During the nearly two years that Liang Su- yung (third from left) has served as its president, the Legislative Yuan has seen the greatest changes in its power structure (photo by Chen Kai-chu).

Liang Su-yung, who was imprisoned as a young man for resistance to the Japanese occupation and who once served as a defense attorney for opposition figures, will enter another stage of life after leaving the Legislative Yuan.

The departure of the senior legislators from the Legislative Yuan represents the advent of a new era.

During the nearly two years that Liang Su- yung （third from left） has served as its president, the Legislative Yuan has seen the greatest changes in its power structure （photo by Chen Kai-chu）.

Liang Su-yung, who was imprisoned as a young man for resistance to the Japanese occupation and who once served as a defense attorney for opposition figures, will enter another stage of life after leaving the Legislative Yuan.

The departure of the senior legislators from the Legislative Yuan represents the advent of a new era.