Q: Recently there seems to have been a great change in the relations between Chinese people overseas and in the Republic of China. At the end of July, Yazhou Zhoukan magazine ran a cover story entitled "The Bridge is Down, the Bonds are Broken," saying that the once close relationship between Overseas Chinese and the R.O.C. has gradually become distant. What would you say is the current state of our relations with Chinese People overseas?

A: I don't think that report was very accurate. Perhaps it was influenced to some degree by Overseas Chinese organizations in Hong Kong. Some people in Hong Kong are vehemently anticommunist, and seeing how close economic and trading relations between our government and mainland China have grown over the last six months, and the fact that we have no longer been using certain slogans like "Oppose Communism and Resist Russia" or "Unite China under the Three Principles of the People," they have begun to wonder if the government no longer opposes communism. This is inevitably hard for them to accept psychologically, and so creates a feeling of distance.

Chinese who emigrated overseas many years ago still do their best to maintain their traditional culture. The photo shows the Bok Kai Festival in Marysville, California.

Critical opinions are a sign of patriotism

I think this is caused by insufficient understanding of the evolution of the political environment within the R.O.C.. At the beginning of this year, there were also many voices raised in America expressing dissatisfaction with the government, many criticisms of the ruling party, and various opinions about the ruling group around Lee Teng-hui and Hao Pei-tsun. After I took office, as soon as the Legislative Yuan session ended I flew to 10 cities in America to visit people there and sit down and discuss with them in detail our national policy, the direction in which our country is headed, cross-strait relations, our international situation and so on, to help them come to a better understanding of trends within this country.

While I was abroad I explained to them that although we no longer use anti-communist slogans, we still express our opposition to communism in our actions. In fact, by permitting people to visit their relatives on the mainland, and through economic and trade contacts, we hope to bring about a fundamental change in communism; what we call peaceful evolution is a way of solving the mainland problem by peaceful means rather than by revolution and armed force. As for "uniting China under the Three Principles of the People," we first began using that slogan back in 1981, but any slogan belongs to a particular time. Now we say that Chinese unification must take place under conditions of freedom, democracy and prosperity; isn't that precisely uniting China under the Three Principles of the People? After we explained this to them, people overseas have been more ready to accept it.

So I don't think there is a growing separation between Overseas Chinese and the R.O.C.. Indeed, the more a person has critical opinions, the more it shows they care about the future of the Republic of China.

Q: But there have certainly been changes in the attitudes of people in the R.O.C. towards the Overseas Chinese, in years gone by we used to welcome Overseas Chinese to return home each October for National Day, but now some people suggest that the Overseas Chinese Affairs Commission should be abolished, and that for expatriates' children to return to the R.O.C. to study deprives local people of places, and so on. Why has there been such a change in attitudes? Some people criticize us as self-centered, saying that now we've got some money we don't want the Overseas Chinese any more.

Traditional Overseas Chinese associations have always had a strong attachment to China. （photo from the collection of the Hawaii Chinese History Center）

Bridges between Chinese inside and outside the R.O.C.

A: It is quite true that in recent years people in the R.O.C. have shown some unfriendliness towards Chinese abroad. Three years ago, when some Overseas Chinese who had come back to take part in the October 10th National Day celebrations went to visit the Kaohsiung and Pingtung areas, local residents threw eggs at them and treated them roughly to show they were not welcome. Of course this is very different from the past.

There are many reasons involved here, but the most important is a lack of mutual understanding. Everyone thinks that the airline tickets of the Overseas Chinese who come back for National Day celebrations are provided by the government, but in fact they are all paid for with their own money.

Many people are resentful that the Overseas Chinese pay no taxes, so why should they enjoy rights? In fact the number of jobs created by Overseas Chinese investment is still as many as 1% today; and the donations given by many Overseas Chinese amount to more than people here pay in taxes. Even within the R.O.C., not everyone necessarily pays taxes, such as members of the armed forces, elementary and high school teachers, and retired people; they are either making a contribution to the country or have paid taxes in the past, and so they too are entitled to enjoy their rights as citizens. Why can't we open our hearts and accept our own overseas compatriots?

What's more, many expatriates originally came from Taiwan, which means that in fact the Overseas Chinese are our own compatriots, our own brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles living overseas. Soon after I was appointed, I commissioned a survey which showed that quite a high proportion of people in the R.O.C. have relatives overseas; in the U.S.A. in particular, half the Chinese there are originally from Taiwan. To discriminate against Overseas Chinese is both unnecessary and unreasonable.

Thus since I took over as chairman of the Overseas Chinese Affairs Commission, as well as wanting to make the Commission a bridge between Chinese people and the government, I have also wanted to make it a bridge between Chinese people overseas and within the R.O.C.. In the past, we have done almost no work in this direction. I have already set up an information office which actively releases news to the R.O.C. media; Overseas Torch-light Weekly has changed its format and is now also distributed within the R.O.C., and we even send copies to the D.P.P.; the more we believe people misunderstand us, the more we feel the need to send them copies.

The large numbers of Taiwanese business people investing abroad have changed the structure of Overseas Chinese communities. （photo by Vincent Chang）

Communication instead of confrontation

You mentioned the suggestions that the Overseas Chinese Affairs Commission should be abolished; these were made by a minority of D.P.P. legislators. I think that one of the reasons is that they do not understand the services which the Commission provides to Chinese expatriates all over the world. Another reason is the question of identification with one's country. They only want to be concerned with Taiwan, and want to cut off anything to do with the Republic of China, including the Overseas Chinese, who are our umbilical cord to the outside world.

Another reason, and one which we cannot really reproach them for, is that they believe that in the past the Commission has not taken care of what they call the Overseas Taiwanese, the associations of people of Taiwanese ancestry. After taking office I examined the records, and I admit that not enough was done in that direction. We did not have enough contact with Taiwanese compatriots' associations and Taiwanese chambers of commerce; and there really are a lot of people out there who are originally from Taiwan. Therefore, I immediately made adjustments to actively build contacts with them. I believe that since the Overseas Chinese Affairs Commission's budget is provided by the state, we must distribute it in a fair and reasonable way.

Of course, many of the Taiwanese expatriate organizations also had a negative attitude in the past, and were not very active in their relations with the government; but since our contacts have increased, this has changed. For instance, I was invited to attend the conference of the Taiwanese Chambers of Commerce of North America in Atlantic City in June; this is the first time our government has attended such a conference, and they even raised the R.O.C. flag in front of the conference hall.

I firmly believe that in today's world, communication is replacing confrontation. I hope that as our efforts gradually progress, the barriers between different Overseas Chinese associations can be removed and they can work together.

Q: It seems that the changes in policy on Overseas Chinese affairs have also been hard for some expatriates to understand, and they feel that the government is leaning too heavily towards Taiwanese expatriates. Our readers' letters and our opinion poll also show that some people in the R.O.C. are only critical of newly-emigrated Taiwanese expatriates, taking the view that the old Overseas Chinese only emigrated because life was too hard in the late Ching Dynasty, but many new emigrants migrated when the country was in trouble--when we left the United Nations and broke off diplomatic relations with the U.S.A.--or that they left when they had exploited all they could of Taiwan's resources, and so some people feel a great aversion towards them. What is your view?

We must not be biased

A: I don't think we can say that everyone who has gone abroad does not identify with the government. In fact, many people have migrated overseas because of problems in the R.O.C. such as space, population pressure or education, but this does not mean that they are not patriotic. Actually only a minority have left because they have no confidence in the country. There are also many who have stayed abroad after going there to study or work. It would be very unfair for us to say that new expatriates do not identify with their country, simply based on the attitudes of a minority of people. I propose that we should draw up a policy on migrants, and that we should do things for recent emigrants.

I want to stress that we also wish to strengthen our relationships with the traditional Overseas Chinese associations, and will not neglect them on account of our contacts with new migrants, for they really have shown their love for this country through their actions. For instance, it is always the traditional associations which turn out for parades and celebrations on National Day, whereas if you ask some new expatriates or professionals to come out on the street and wave the R.O.C. flag, it seems to be below their dignity. So there is still a lot to be said for the traditional Overseas Chinese associations.

Q: We've heard that when you meet with Overseas Chinese organizations abroad, you often say a few words in Cantonese, and this goes down very well with the old Overseas Chinese. Did your wife help you brush up your Cantonese?

Proud of his "Cantonese connection"

A: After I took on this job, I studied Cantonese myself by listening to tapes while driving. I could already speak Hakka, so it wasn't so hard to make the switch. Of course, now and then I privately ask my wife for help. Even though she also grew up in Taiwan, she sometimes speaks Cantonese with her father at home, so she doesn't speak it too badly.

When I go to traditional Overseas Chinese organizations abroad, my wife is a tremendous help to me. The Overseas Chinese are deeply attached to their ancestral homelands, and the last few Commission chairmen have all been Cantonese. People say: "That fellow Chang isn't Cantonese, but luckily his wife is." So I often tell people: "My in-laws are Cantonese," and that pleases them no end.

Q: The Overseas Chinese may still be very sentimental, but people in the R.O.C. are not that way any more, and talking to them about national sentiment or history doesn't seem to have much persuasive power. Can we find a new meaning for our relations with Chinese people overseas, and mutually redefine our positions?

A: The role of expatriates also changes over time. At the time of the overthrow of the Ching Dynasty, they were the mothers of the revolution; in the initial phase of Taiwan's economic reconstruction they came back to invest and help our economy develop, creating jobs; now, with the development of relations across the Taiwan Strait, the role of the Overseas Chinese is still very important: they form a pressure group and lend weight to whichever side they support. Their stance influences the attitudes towards the R.O.C. and mainland China of the governments in their countries of residence. For instance, in the U.S.A. the Department of State has an office in each of the States which observes trends in which side the local Chinese community identifies with politically.

The expatriate community also has a catalytic effect on mainland China. It can promote political and economic reform and structural changes on the mainland, and people have an influence on the mainland both when they return home and when they go abroad. For instance, at the time of the June 4th massacre, there was an immediate response overseas, with protests outside the Chinese Communists' embassies, which naturally made them feel pressure.

Chinese people overseas not only play the role of a pressure group towards mainland China, they have also applied pressure to promote democratization in the Republic of China. We cannot deny that overseas opinion has been influential, for instance in getting the blacklist abolished.

Channeling Chinese economic power

Q: That is something that the political parties in the R.O.C. are very clear about; at the moment they are all vying for the support of the Overseas Chinese; in the past it was the Nationalist and Communist parties, but now there are three parties just from Taiwan competing overseas for the hearts and minds of Chinese expatriates. What are your thoughts about this?

A: I am very much against carrying local political struggles overseas; we should not be creating splits and confrontations between Overseas Chinese organizations, but rather we hope they will come together and cooperate. Naturally, the political views of some people locally will influence and project to those overseas, and create different political attitudes. But just as people in the R.O.C. adhere to different political factions, this is a normal phenomenon and is not a problem so long as people identify with and support their country.

Q: In our contacts with some second and third generation Overseas Chinese we have discovered that in fact many of them are not all that interested in politics; what they care about is whether they can lead a good life in their country of residence. Does the Overseas Chinese Affairs Commission have any new approaches in view of this trend?

A: The conduct of Overseas Chinese affairs has to be pragmatic, and our approach has to change in line with changes in the structure of Chinese communities. We cannot leave it at simply making friends and appealing to people's emotions. I emphasize that we must provide services in response to needs and seek out issues on which to communicate.

I plan to have Gallup make a poll of Chinese outside China to see in what areas they really require assistance from the government. This will make the way we work more scientific.

In the future, economic activities should be a very important element in the ommission's work. In a few days I am going to Europe, to see what help we can give to the Overseas Chinese there on the economic front. In the past, Overseas Chinese have made a great contribution to Taiwan's economic development, and now it is time for us to turn around and help them.

I also often think about how we can channel the economic power of Chinese people around the world. At present, we have already brought together Taiwanese businessmen in the Southeast Asian region. In July, the Asian Federation of Taiwanese Chambers of Commerce was set up, and the establishment of this Federation will build strength. I hope that in the future Taiwanese chambers of commerce in Vietnam, mainland China and even America will also join.

Charitable ideas

Another thing is to give help for the Chinese language education of second and third generation Overseas Chinese. Taiwan has an American school, a Japanese school and a Korean school, and we should certainly be able to establish Taipei Schools overseas to provide our Chinese expatriates with educational opportunities according to the R.O.C. system. There are already three Taipei Schools in Malaysia and Indonesia, and one is to be set up in Thailand. There are also plans to set up a bilingual Taipei School in America in the future.

From a commercial point of view, schools like this certainly have a market. The children of Taiwanese business people, diplomats, people studying overseas and anyone who may return to the R.O.C. to study will have a great need for them. Nor should we forget the children sent to study abroad; they have had so many tragic experiences overseas, and I think our government has a duty to look after them. The Overseas Chinese Affairs Commission should act as a "Ministry of the Interior for people overseas."

Because the Commission's budget is limited, I am also thinking of calling in the Tzu-Chi Foundation. They are very strong overseas and many members are very enthusiastic in performing charitable work. If Tzu-Chi or Master Hsing-Yun [of Fokuangshan Temple] could set up a foundation, the government would provide equal funding and guidance. I am sure that we can do this, and at present we are already drawing up plans.

Q: Providing assistance for our citizens overseas is very necessary, but some legislators have pointed out that the reason there is so much controversy today is because the definition of Overseas Chinese is unclear, and this lack of clarity leads to an imbalance between rights and duties. Has the Commission any concrete plans in this regard?

A: According to our constitution and our nationality law, an expatriate is a citizen of the Republic of China resident overseas. The R.O.C.'s nationality law is based on the principle of descent or blood relationship, so that if the father is Chinese, then the child is also born Chinese. If you wish to give up your citizenship you have to apply to the Ministry of the Interior and your citizenship does not terminate until approval is publicly announced. If someone holds a valid R.O.C. passport, their status is all the clearer. In the past our rules were rather lax; we only required someone to have lived abroad for at least two years, and to have acquired the right of permanent residence in the foreign country, for them to register as an expatriate.

People everywhere love their native land

But the two-year time limit has attracted criticism from a lot of people, and we have discovered that it tends to lead to abuse, so we are currently in discussion with the relevant departments at the Ministry of the Interior, and we may change the time limit to four years and gradually revise the regulations to make them more reasonable. Keep in mind that on gaining expatriate status one enjoys special treatment in many respects, for instance as regards military service. The Ministry of Defense is not satisfied with this aspect, and I too am in favor of making a reasonable adjustment in this regard.

Finally, I would also like to stress that although it is possible for the law to define the meaning of Overseas Chinese more comprehensively, Chinese people's feeling for their motherland cannot be delimited in the same way. In the past we often used to say that the Chinese are strongly attached to their ancestral homelands, but in fact don't people from other countries love their motherland too? For instance, when Chopin was alive he wished to return to Poland but could not; in his will he wrote: if my body cannot return to Warsaw, at least carry back my heart. One can see that nostalgia for one's motherland is a feeling common to all mankind, just as children who have left home often miss and love their home even more strongly than do those who stayed behind. I hope that people in the R.O.C. can also understand our relationship with the Overseas Chinese from this point of view.

[Picture Caption]

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Coming to the Overseas Chinese Affairs Commission from the Foreign Ministry, John Chang has brought many new approaches, and has aroused differing responses among Overseas Chinese organizations. (photo by Hsueh Chi-kuang)

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Chinese who emigrated overseas many years ago still do their best to maintain their traditional culture. The photo shows the Bok Kai Festival in Marysville, California

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Traditional Overseas Chinese associations have always had a strong attachment to China. (photo from the collection of the Hawaii Chinese History Center)

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The large numbers of Taiwanese business people investing abroad have changed the structure of Overseas Chinese communities. (photo by Vincent Chang)

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An important part of the Overseas Chinese Affairs Commission's work in the future will be to expand the number of Overseas Chinese schools in order to meet the educational needs of children of Chinese descent. (photo by Chiu Jui-chin)