A: Having more than 20,000 people sit outside in the park near Chiang Kai-Shek Memorial Hall to see our first performance was very moving. There were several generations there, some of them with kids in tow or with baby carriages. My feeling is that a lot of people long for a life like that--that they went there to take part in a humanistic, cultural activity as much as to watch a performance. There were a lot of young people there, too. Our society needs a feeling like that, a sense of everyone coming together in one place, and that's something we at Cloud Gate have always wanted to provide.

But an activity like that takes a lot of financial backing, especially open-air performances. The ticket prices can't be too high, and it costs a lot of money to set up the stage. We'll tour all around the island starting next May, and 30 or more of the 50 performances are expected to draw audiences of 30,000 to 50,000. We're trying to get the money together for it now.

A good company should go out and give performances at the grassroots level so people can come together to watch them perform. When Westerners go to church, for instance, it's as much a communal activity as a religious one. We don't have this kind of habit, and people are growing further and further apart.

If a good performance can get people to turn off the TV and come together where they can say hi to each other and chat, then a lot of things can happen, then people can interact with each other and relate. A good performance also broadens people's horizons and gives them new sensations and hope for the future, which is a powerful force in helping people to get by and carry on.

Q: Your beliefs haven't changed, but many of your methods seem somewhat different this time around, such as integrating your plans with the corporate world and firming up your administration system. What is the key to these changes?

A: Why have there been so many changes? Because we're ready and prepared. We're more mature and confident, and we feel we can "dance solo" now. Being older has something to do with it, of course. I can look further ahead now, and I'm not so hasty.

The big picture is different, too. There have been changes in the cultural atmosphere as a whole, and we believe there's a potential for change in society, too, provided there are people around to push it along.

Cloud Gate is a small to medium-sized business itself, don't forget, centered on manpower, with dance as its product. It needs stable financial resources, and we openly solicit funds from the public. Mostly we take in just NT$500 or NT$l,000 here and there, but even that's an encouragement--and for the donors it's a way of getting involved.

This is the first time that a performing company in the Republic of China has come out and tried to do something like that in a planned way, and the success or failure of it will affect how the business world relates to the arts and how the arts relate to the society as a whole. If we can get past this hurdle, the next step will be easier. If not, then the arts scene will be that much quieter for a while longer, I'm afraid.

Q: Cloud Gate's first time around wasn't all that awful, was it? Could you talk about some of the pressures you faced and the setbacks and frustrations you overcame during those dozen or so years?

A: I don't think about that much at all. My life is full enough with choreographing, holding meetings and trying to ensure a good performance, which involves a lot of tiny details, basically. As for setbacks or frustrations, as long as you ask yourself clearly whether or not you want to do something and why and you think it through first, the frustrations will go away. There will always be difficulties, of course, but if you're determined to do something, then your personal feelings of success or failure aren't important.

Q: What have you gained during your years with Cloud Gate and what have you lost?

A: I've gained a lot of satisfaction seeing audiences happy and watching young people grow up. And every time a plan is completed or a season is over, the work in itself is a gain. What have I lost? I don't have a house or a car, and sometimes I'd like to go on a trip but I don't have the money--it's all very annoying.

Q: Everybody on the Taiwan cultural scene was talking about Cloud Gate a dozen years ago, and now, a dozen years later, everyone is still talking about it. What are your aspirations for the future?

A: I hope that thirty years from now everyone will still be talking about Cloud Gate. I've eaten I Mei cookies ever since I was a kid, and there should be old established brands like Kuo Yuan Ye and Hsin Tung Yang in our cultural world, too. A place with a solid foundation is a place that lasts. Ever since Cloud Gate came back, I've harbored a secret wish that we can keep on going, that many people can grow along with us and that generation after generation can share a common experience. That's something not only Cloud Gate could do. Many groups or businesses could do it, too.

A feeling of heritage and stability like this is needed to build continuity in life. Like Chiang Kai-shek Memorial Hall, for instance. Even though it's a new place, it started to build up new significance because of the protests against the Tienanmen massacre, the student demonstrations there.

Symbols of common spiritual sustenance like that are important. Do we have any in the cultural world of Taiwan? Are there any authors or painters we've all admired since we were little? There aren't. There's only Chang Hsiao-yen (a perennially popular TV hostess). Overseas, people of every generation know about the Mona Lisa, but we can't find any names like that here. I hope people will still mention Cloud Gate thirty years from now, not because of me, but because of the company. 

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(photo by Vincent Chang)