The date was May 18, the place the office of the minister of defense on the fourth floor of the Presidential Building, where Mr. Hau Peitsun granted us his first exclusive magazine interview after being nominated by President Lee to serve as premier. Minister Hau was at first brief and to the point, but soon enough he became more expansive and spoke freely from the bottom of his heart. Below are some of the high-lights of the interview.
Q: There have been many voices both for and against your nomination as premier, but everyone is united in the hope that you will work with boldness and initiative in maintaining law and order. How do you plan to satisfy the public's expectations in that regard?
A: I think you first have to understand the political situation in this country. Since the lifting of martial law, along with the opening up of newspapers and new political parties, the development of democracy has been extremely rapid, and certain aberrations or abnormalities have resulted. The lifting of martial law was declared very quickly, but we didn't do enough preparation in two of the conditions for developing democracy. One is rule by law. A democracy is based on rule by law, but we didn't fully prepare the laws that were needed.
The second is the media, or public opinion. In going from restrictions to total deregulation, just like thousands of galloping horses that have lost their reins, there have inevitably been some aberrations, and even abuses, in freedom of the press and freedom of speech.
The basis of rule by law is not fully in place, and public opinion is out of control, like horses without reins. In addition, most of the public takes democracy to mean that the government or other people should be a certain way, but they don't understand much about the role that they themselves should play. That isn't a "healthy" democracy, it's a "sick" one.
The public is ardently expecting improvements in law and order and social stability, and my prime goal in the Executive Yuan will be to enable the public to live in peace and harmony. But I'm not a magician, and the problem isn't something that can be solved at once as soon as certain person comes along.
Q: It's said that some small and mid-sized firms have already stopped leaving the country because you're the one who's going to form a cabinet.
A: I'm extremely grateful to them and I hope I won't let them down. I have a plan in mind now that I hope will begin to show results in six months' time. I can't give a written guarantee, but I am going to find out what the real problems are.
Q: Could you tell us about the plan?
A: Let me give an example. Political antagonism and conflict have a lot to do with law and order. That's why the constitutional system of government and the various political reforms that come out of the National Affairs Conference will have to be carried out quickly.
The second is reforms in government administration. That mainly involves raising the government's powers of authority and public trust, which also means raising its efficiency as a whole. Its crime-fighting measures won't be fully effective unless the government is more efficient.
The third is society. For better law and order, we have to mobilize the society as a whole so that people can protect and watch out for one another. I might hold a national crime conference sometime in the future, with active participation from the Executive Yuan on down to the town and village level.
Of course, mobilizing government effectiveness and establishing social consciousness can't be done overnight. Besides that, I hope to call on criminal elements in society to reform themselves, using punishment on one hand and guidance on the other, to give them a chance to go straight rather than going to extremes. And that has to start with education and culture, channeling people in a healthy direction.
If the number of people who want to turn to crime goes down on its own and then we go on to control the problem, I think that the law and order situation can be measurably improved.
Q: Democracies all have defects, even in advanced countries like Britain and the United States. Have you thought about the meaning of a healthy democracy? To what degree can Taiwan be called one?
A: Using the current yardstick, if our political system can function about the same as those of Britain, the U.S., West Germany and Japan, then it could generally be called a healthy democracy.
Health doesn't necessarily mean that we come out of our checkups with zero defects. I'm a very healthy person, but if I go to the hospital for a complete physical, they always find something or other. No political system is perfect, but democracy is at least the one with the fewest defects.
Q: You used to be in the military, where obedience reigns. Now that you're going to be the premier of a democratic country, we would all like to learn more about your thoughts on democracy. Could you clarify with some examples?
A: I often say that soldiers should understand politics. They shouldn't engage in politics, but if they don't understand it they can't be considered modern soldiers. In fact, military affairs and politics are inseparable.
When I was in the U.S., I came to appreciate the value of press freedom, but they also have very strict standards for the press in terms of quality, morality and the law. If you're hit with a libel suit for false reporting, for instance, you may well find yourself in big trouble. In Taiwan there doesn't seem to be any protection for an individual's privacy or personal dignity. People worry about politics at the point of a gun, but it's really just as much of a crime to misuse the point of a pen.
The style and stamp of democracy isn't found in the winners so much as in the losers. In the U.S. presidential elections, for instance, the loser telephones the winner with congratulations as soon as the results are in. That's not like here, where the losers claim the vote was unfair and take to the streets in protest--just the opposite, in fact.
I went to Switzerland last year and found their country's democracy really charming. If you want to put up a building there, for instance, you have to meet with your neighbors first, and you can't start work until they agree to your plans. There's a good reason for that: even though it's your land and your money, one person can't be allowed to ruin the style and ambience of the entire neighborhood.
Switzerland is a country that's democratic through and through. The public has the magnanimity to accept that the minority should obey the majority, and a society like that will naturally be harmonious!
Q: You once told the media that you didn't want to take over as premier at first, and your family was against it too. Could you discuss some of the considerations that led you to accept?
A: My thinking was that our country is now at a critical juncture and that President Lee believes I can work with him in laying a foundation for its future. I have a sense of mission and responsibility, too. Considerations of personal success or failure don't come into it, but only those of the country and the welfare of the people.
My feeling is that I've been in the military for more than fifty years, where the principle is to sacrifice one's all for the country, where you may have to give your life for the country on the battlefield. Now that I'm in the political arena, it's the same: I have no personal aims or ambitions.
Since I don't have any personal considerations at stake, I don't have so much to worry about in getting things done. If something needs to be done, I'll do it. If it works, that's fine; if not, I made the wrong decision. I can live with it.
Q: Many people say that since you held such a high position in the armed forces it doesn't seem that you should have to face public opinion the way you have. Ju Gao-jeng has said that being premier is like going to hell. . .
A: He's right!
Q: Are you psychologically prepared for that?
A: [Laughing] I've been ready for quite some time. And I served as minister of defense for half a year, so I've already had six months' of kindergarten at the Legislative Yuan!
Q: You just mentioned how President Lee asked you to come forward at this critical juncture and work with him in building up the nation. Since it's still a matter of dispute whether our government is a presidential or a parliamentary system how will the President and you divide work between you?
A: I'm not a student of constitutional law and I don't have an expert understanding of the presidential and parliamentary systems, but the Constitution does stipulate that the Executive Yuan is responsible to the Legislative Yuan, and I'm willing to bear that responsibility. As for my dealings with the president, the president is the chairman of the party, and decisions of party policy are made within the party system by the chairman together with the premier, who is also a standing member, along with various party members in the Legislative Yuan.
If we could rely one hundred percent on a system in whatever we do, then we could feed the question of a presidential or a parliamentary system into a computer and come up with the answer. A system is just a model. How it operates still depends on the consensus, harmony and cooperation of the people involved. That's why President Lee and I won't have any problems at all in dividing the work between us.
Q: Does that mean you've already set up rules to follow in handling major decisions?
A: Before policy is made on a major national issue, the people concerned have to gain an understanding of the issue, so there are some stages of consulting work first. When it comes to the decision-making stage, then the things that the president should decide should be decided by him and the things that I should decide should be decided by me.
Q: What things should he decide then, and what things should be decided by you? Could you clarify further?
A: I don't think I can cite examples one by one. If it were something that had to be decided by the ruling party first, then the ruling party has its own decision-making procedures, doesn't it?
Q: Some scholars have held differing views with regard to your nomination. What sort of attitude will you adopt toward the views of scholars in the private sector, outside of your advisors and the members of your cabinet?
A: My approach will probably be something like this. For scholars, industry executives and government functionaries of all levels as well as various private organizations, I plan to make use of a seminar format to gain an understanding of the issues concerned. But it will limited to understanding only and won't involve decision making. After everyone has enabled the problem to be understood in greater depth by offering various opinions, then government can then make a comparative analysis from an objective, comprehensive standpoint and come to a conclusion.
Q: Military affairs is still a prime focus of public concern. When the Goddess of Democracy ship approached Taiwan a while back, a Communist submarine was found offshore but you insisted there wasn't a problem. What was your reason? Could you analyze the other side's military strength and strategy?
A: This is a very big question, and it's like this: someone said to me recently that we claimed we had found a Communist submarine but the newspapers said the Communists denied they had sent one and he wondered if there had really been a sub after all.
I said that in military matters like this one truth and deception are hopelessly intertwined, and who can say it was really one way or the other? It's not necessary to answer! But maintaining peace and quiet on the Taiwan Strait is the basic policy we strive for.
The Communists have so many troublesome internal problems that, in my judgement, it's not very likely if they would create some military provocation right now. So I really didn't care how tough they talked when the Goddess of Democracy arrived--that was just to scare people. They weren't going to infringe on the ship and create an incident on the Taiwan Strait.
Q: When members of the Legislative Yuan wanted to cut back on the army recently, you said that would be impossible. Could you analyze some the reasons?
A: It's very simple. It's a question of troop strength. We can cut back all right--if everyone wants to get ready to emigrate!
We can't engage in wishful thinking and simply "suppose" the other side won't come and attack us. The only reason they don't is our strength, not because they don't want to. They haven't even been willing to renounce the use of armed force, and even if they did we couldn't believe them. We can't entrust our security to the whims of others. It's too dangerous.
The situation between the two sides of the Taiwan Strait is like a tug of war. It's a tense calm in which the forces of either side are evenly matched. If you took away a couple of people, you'd be pulled over and lose.
Q: Which leader of theirs do you see as really in charge of their military movements?
A: Right now it's Teng Hsiao-p'ing, of course!
Q: There are some people who believe that all the investment there by Taiwan businessmen has turned Amoy into a little Taiwan, so the strategic value of Quemoy and Matsu no longer exists. What is your view?
A: Defending Quemoy and Matsu is to guard Taiwan, not Amoy. Their large investment in Amoy is a problem well worth considering in terms of the military situation. One of the preconditions that Y. C. Wang has made for locating the number six cracking plant in Haitsang is no fighting on the Quemoy-Matsu front. If that should happen, we would immediately blockade Amoy harbor. You couldn't ship things out or ship in materials from the outside, and it would be a big problem. Unfortunately, local businessmen rarely weigh things from this angle.
Q: You were a military man in the past, the minister of defense, so we all believe your mainland policy must certainly be anti-Communist. Now that your position is premier, what will your thinking and methods be in regard to relations across the Taiwan Strait?
A: It's a necessary trend for us to increase our dealings with the mainland. From our perspective, we have to deal them in order to export the Taiwan experience to the mainland and influence them with our democracy and prosperity. How can we if we don't?
To be frank, though, we have our plans and the Communists have theirs, and the plans are basically in conflict. They hope we'll find the mainland all right and the Communist party not so awful, so they can achieve their "United Front" objectives. We hope the public sees how much hardship, backwardness and lack of freedom there is there. At same time we want the people on the mainland to see the democratic, free enterprise system on Taiwan: Would you like to live that way too? Then learn from Taiwan. That's what the Communists fear most.
Both sides are pleased to call it an exchange. The term is the same, but the attitudes are different. The Communists welcome our going there in one respect, but in another they oppose it. We have to adopt a policy toward the mainland that is active and assertive without being characterized by wishful thinking. But I believe that we obtain more benefit in our dealings with the mainland than they do. They're the ones who are afraid of it, not us.
A lot of people have criticized President Bush for being too weak in his policy toward the mainland since the Tienanmen massacre, and I talked with them about this question when I was in the U.S. last year. I said you can sanction the Communists any way you want, but the most important thing is not to let them shut the door again. That would be a problem for us and for the Free World as a whole. I wasn't expressing support or approval for Bush when I said that, but the U.S. officials seemed grateful that there was someone who understood their difficulties when the rest of the world was unforgiving.
Even if the Communists wanted to close the door though, they couldn't. The position they're in now is the door can't be shut and they have to fight against the problems they have let in. That's the toughest thing for Teng Hsiao-p'ing right now.
Q: You have been the focus of a lot of media attention lately. Do you think the reporting has been fair?
A: It's been all right by and large, although a small amount of it has been slanted.
Q: Is there any that you would like to take this opportunity to clarify or explain?
A: I don't think there have been too many that have deviated from the truth because of a misunderstanding. Some of them start out with a preconception that distorts things under any circumstances, and you can't clear things up with them even if you try.
I'll give an example. I met with some colleagues of mine at the party head-quarters recently, and we had boxed meals for lunch. The lunches were bought at the Ministry of Defense cafeteria, they weren't given by me. And then one newspaper wrote that boxed lunches from the military are military interference in the government. [General laughter.] So how should I clear that up?
Some people are very well intentioned though. They've come and told me that my military coloring from the past is too heavy and now that I'm going to be premier should do a little "packaging."
Q: Someone even suggested you should trim your eyebrows, didn't they?
A: I'm not ready for that yet. I accepted some suggestions of course, but I don't think there's any need for painstaking packaging every day. People who know the real value of merchandise don't buy the packaging.
Q: Just which aspects need special packaging in your estimation?
A: There may be one point. I used to be the top brass wherever I went in the military so I naturally walked in front. [Explains with a smile.] No one else dared to if I didn't! But it's not right to stand up and go first now that I'm a civilian. You should be more courteous with older statesmen. There's a need for appropriate packaging, but I think honesty and sincerity are still the most important.
[Picture Caption]
Premier Hau indicates that enabling the public to live in peace and contentment will be the prime goal of his cabinet. (photo by Huang Li-li)
Premier Hau's appearances at the Legislative Yuan have been a focus of broad public attention. (photo from Sinorama files)
Hau Pei-tsun, chief of the general staff at the time, receives a delegation of foreign and Chinese press correspondents at Quemoy. (photo by Vincent Chang)
He accompanies President Chiang Ching-kuo on a review the troops at Hukou, October 1987.(photo from Sinorama files)
As president of the Chungshan Institute of Technology and Science, Hau Pei-tsun strove to develop defense technology. Here President Lee Teng-hui inspects the Ching-kuo fighter, which was developed at the institute. (photo by Arthur Cheng)
Premier Hau has engaged in early-morning exercise for years. (photos fro m Sinorama files)
Ever since his nomination as premier, the peace and quiet at poolside has vanished.(photo by Chen Kai-chu)
Premier and Madame Hau treated the president of Paraguay and his wife to a special banquet during their recent visit to the R.O.C. (photo by Li Pei-hui)
Premier Hau's appearances at the Legislative Yuan have been a focus of broad public attention. （photo from Sinorama files）
Hau Pei-tsun, chief of the general staff at the time, receives a delegation of foreign and Chinese press correspondents at Quemoy. （photo by Vincent Chang）
He accompanies President Chiang Ching-kuo on a review the troops at Hukou, October 1987.（photo from Sinorama files）
As president of the Chungshan Institute of Technology and Science, Hau Pei-tsun strove to develop defense technology. Here President Lee Teng-hui inspects the Ching-kuo fighter, which was developed at the institute. （photo by Arthur Cheng）
Premier Hau has engaged in early-morning exercise for years. （photos fro m Sinorama files）
Ever since his nomination as premier, the peace and quiet at poolside has vanished.（photo by Chen Kai-chu）
Premier and Madame Hau treated the president of Paraguay and his wife to a special banquet during their recent visit to the R.O.C. （photo by Li Pei-hui）
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