Mr. Bernard Faivre d'Arcier, artistic director of France's Avignon Festival, recently visited Taiwan with his wife at the invitation of the Council for Cultural Affairs, to attend the Council's 14th anniversary celebrations. In a busy 10- day stay, Mr. and Mrs. Faivre d'Arcier saw many examples of Taiwan's performing arts, and announced plans to stage a program of performances by artists from Taiwan in Avignon in 1998. Shortly before leaving Taiwan, Mr. Faivre d'Arcier gave Sinorama this interview, in which he talks about his impressions of this visit and the planning and production of the Avignon Festival.

Q: During this visit to Taiwan you have viewed many performances. Can you tell us your impressions of what you have seen?

A: This has been my first visit to Taiwan, and it has been a rather pleasant and positive discovery. I think Taiwan not only has a long and fine artistic tradition, but also an interesting and fertile artistic environment, with new generations of artists in the fields of cinema, dance and theater.

In the area of dance, I know that the Cloud Gate Dance Theater is a long-established troupe with an important place in the history of dance in Taiwan, like Maurice B嶴art in Europe. But at the moment I'm more on the lookout for the younger generation. That said, I didn't find anything completely convincing in what I saw. It's a matter of time and patience. I think the work of choreographer Lin Li- chen retains genuine psychological roots, but also makes very good technical use of space and lighting.

The most musical performance I saw this time was one of a group of four short pieces performed by U Theater which I saw in Mucha. It was accompanied by little drums and the playing was very pure and clean.

Looking for authentic "Taiwanese fare"

Q: What did you think of the plays you saw? For instance, how did you like Contemporary Legend Theater's Oresteia?

A: Because time was short, I wasn't able to see much contemporary theater apart from Oresteia. It was an enjoyable performance which captivated the audience and which rightly tried to escape from the confines of the traditional stage, but it was somewhat limited in the means available, because of the difficulties of using an open-air stage--it isn't easy to perform in a park.

There were some good ideas in the production, and an obvious wish to reach young people and to give this Greek tragedy contemporary relevance. This was done by means of references to contemporary Chinese culture--specifically, its "Westernization." Thus Athena, who symbolizes democracy, is presented like the host of a television show, and the jury deliberations presided over by Apollo are almost like a TV game show.

This reveals an irony and humor which surely find their mark among young people in Taiwan, but would be less readily understood by audiences in Avignon who do not share the same background and who might find this production too naive.

Q: You mentioned the phenomenon of "Westernization," and in fact this play was the joint creation of the American producer Richard Schechner and a group of Peking Opera players. They have attempted to find new possibilities within a traditional form. Artists in Taiwan are constantly facing the challenge of how to blend the traditional and the modern, the Eastern and the Western.

A: To be honest, I am not looking for modernity in Taiwan to be "Westernization"--quite the contrary. I think that for art to be universal, it must have deep local roots. Above all one must avoid "plum-pudding" [a hotchpotch of too many disparate elements], "liberation" [from one's own traditions], or seeking a (non-existent) international consensus. It's like with food--people will prefer genuine Taiwanese cooking to the international menus which you find at airports.

I know that Contemporary Legend Theater is an interesting company, and I want to follow their other work apart from Oresteia. But I also want to see other Taiwanese theater companies, and this again will be something for another trip.

All the town's a stage

Q: You have already announced at the Council for Cultural Affairs' anniversary celebration that you plan to put programs from Taiwan on the stage at Avignon in 1998. We know that Avignon is one of the world's famous art festivals. Could you briefly outline how the Avignon Festival is organized?

A: Avignon is a medieval city which was the residence of the popes during their exile from Rome. It did not formally become part of France until the French Revolution. The Avignon Festival was founded in 1947, and is funded by the French national and local authorities. Every summer we stage around 40 major theatrical and dance performances in many venues, including open-air ones such as the courtyard of the Palais des Papes (the papal palace). Many of the performances are world premieres, including new pieces by famous companies and also the works of some new talents.

Apart from this, over 400 private groups and individuals come of their own accord to Avignon, where they hire their own venues and do their own publicity. Their programs are not subject to any selection process--there is simply a liaison office which produces a program sheet. These programs form the Avignon Fringe Festival. There is terrific competition between them, and to attract audiences the actors parade through the streets distributing leaflets.

The quality of the performances put on by all these professional and amateur groups and individuals ranges from the appalling to the excellent, and audiences can pick and choose just as at a flea market. Around 10% of the fringe performances are special enough to have a chance of returning in a few years' time as part of the official program.

The official and fringe programs complement each other; they don't interfere with each other. Generally the fringe performances go on all day, while the official program's performances start from six or seven in the evening and continue till late at night.

When the festival program starts, theater lovers from all over the world converge on the town, doubling its population overnight. Everywhere there are crowds of people discussing the festival performances, and the streets are festooned with posters. There is a tremendous atmosphere of excitement, and in effect the whole city becomes an enormous stage and theater. If you put on a theater festival in a large city like Paris, Vienna or London, most people would not sense the same excitement as in Avignon.

The director's choice

Q: How are the programs for the Avignon Festival chosen? Are there selection and planning committees?

A: As artistic director of the Avignon Festival I choose all the programs myself; there is no committee. I was the festival's artistic director for the first time from 1980 to 1985, after which I was theater director at the Ministry of Culture. In 1993, at the invitation of the Mayor of Avignon and the Ministry of Culture, I once again took on the job of artistic director.

I'm neither an actor nor a stage director, but I see myself as a professional audience member, artistic director and producer. You could also say that I'm the representative of an audience--of attentive, inquisitive and cultured theater lovers.

Avignon's first artistic director, Jean Vilar, was an actor and director. But an artistic director today not only has to give artistic guidance--he also needs to have administrative and organizational abilities, which in fact are even more important. I see the role as one of a "public director." In other words, I do not seek private profits or media coups, but I am like a ferryman--a master of ceremonies presenting the artists (both French and foreign) to a wide public.

I lead a double life: by day I am responsible for organization and administration, while by night I become a theater critic. But I don't write my critiques down, except for myself. I must have seen over 4000 performances.

A special affection for Asia?

Q: We hear that currently about a quarter of the performances at each annual festival share a common theme of a particular area of the world. When did this start? Was it also one of your ideas?

A: Actually for 10 or 15 years Avignon has been inviting performers from individual European countries, such as Italy or Britain. As for non-European performances, rather than just inviting one group it is better to plan something more complete and organized, because this makes it easier to educate the public and the media.

1992 was the 500th anniversary of Columbus' discovery of America, so we invited Latin American theater companies to perform. In 1993 we did an East European festival, last year a Japanese festival, and this year's [1995's] theme was India.

Q: How do you select foreign performing troupes? You've had Japan, followed by India, and now you want to bring Taiwanese performers to Avignon--you seem to have quite an interest in Asia?

A: I am very interested in Asia, so there are elements of personal taste in my choice of programs. For instance, as a child I lived in India, and my father-in-law Andr* L憝y is a professor of sinology and a well-known translator of Chinese literature.

In broader terms, Asia is becoming more and more important on the world stage. Japan's image in France, from fashion design and television to architecture, is becoming more and more prominent, and places like Taiwan, Korea and mainland China also have a desire to let Europeans learn about their cultural and artistic development.

A potted history of Taiwan's performing arts

Q: What do you have in mind for your Taiwanese program at Avignon in 1998?

A: I've come this time to first get to know the performers and theatrical organizations here. Before I can produce a theatrical festival I need more detailed and wide-ranging contacts and a long period of observation, discussion and organization.

Overall, because French audiences don't sufficiently understand Taiwan's culture, we first have to present an abridged history of the performing arts in Taiwan, to show its overall artistic development and progress. Then we can present Western influences, and the blend which has resulted from the two.

For instance, we might first put on some rather traditional music and performances; for Peking Opera we would want to put on a new work, or one which is rarely performed; there might also be street performances. But I don't know yet what form it will take.

I also hope that Chinese and French performers can collaborate to produce a play. If artists who go to study abroad do not have a deep enough understanding of their own cultural traditions, then when subjected to Western influence they may easily end up forgetting their own roots and being accepted neither in their own country nor in the other. To avoid this problem, we hope to find performers who have a good grasp of tradition. When people from two countries collaborate it will not be a case of simply pandering to French tastes; each side must respect the other's traditional culture, to give a balance of Chinese and Western.

Noh made to measure

Q: Could you explain the way you plan a program, using last year's Japanese festival as an example? Japanese style has been fashionable in France since the late 19th century, and the Japanese are also good at packaging and marketing their own culture. I'm very curious to know how the Avignon Festival presented its Japanese performances.

A: Japan's most ancient surviving performing art is kagura, a type of medieval sacred Shinto dance which is also the source from which Noh and Kabuki developed. Kagura has been somewhat forgotten in Japan. Last year, to produce the festival, I went to villages deep in the Japanese mountains to invite kagura groups to come and perform in Avignon.

At the same time as presenting some classic Noh and Kabuki, we also asked the Japanese artists to create a modern Noh play (which is like asking Peking Opera artists to create a new opera). So this was a program which was made to measure for Avignon. We not only had new music and scripts, but also had the director come to Avignon beforehand and create a performing space by arranging 4000 bamboo stems in a disused quarry, like a gigantic Ikebana flower arrangement. Many famous Noh performers came to Avignon to take part in the world premiere of the piece. We also asked performers of kyogen (comic interludes in Noh plays) to perform a Theater of the Absurd play by the French-resident Irish playwright Samuel Beckett. Thus we introduced Beck-ett's work into the repertoire of the great families of Japanese kyogen performers.

In terms of East-West collaboration, we asked the American choreographer Susan Burge, who lives in France, to spend six months in Japan working with Japanese modern dancers. For the musical accompaniment, we invited a group of Shinto temple musicians to perform medieval gagaku court music. Gagaku is a very ancient music, but it sounds very like modern music. In terms of contemporary works, we asked a Japanese modern dance choreographer to create a dance piece for a group of anti- establishment young people.

East-West collaboration

Q: That kind of blend of East and West, traditional and modern, sounds very lively and interesting. What is your evaluation of how the Japanese festival turned out? I heard that it received very mixed reviews, but that this year the Japanese made a comeback at the fringe festival, where they used modern Japanese theatrical techniques to perform two French plays which are well known to local audiences and which were very well received.

A: The Japanese and Indian programs turned out well overall, but there was also a measure of rejection both from the public and the critics. In most cases this was because they were not adequately prepared to enable them to understand the performances they were going to see.

This raises the question of the information provided both by the festival (it should have been fuller) and by the media. Although presenting non- European art at Avignon is a difficult undertaking, it is essential that we should do it. This is also why I think it is right to get artists from different parts of the world to work together, for instance in a co-production between French and Taiwanese. Although it is more risky (and more costly) it is very helpful for achieving the mutual understanding which we seek.

Cultural diversity

Q: In 1985, when Peter Brook used an abandoned quarry at Avignon for a nine-hour performance by actors from various countries of the Hindu epic poem Mahabharata, many people hailed the production as a successful blend of numerous cultural elements. But others felt that Brook did not have a deep enough understanding of Hindu thought, so that the work was another example of oriental exoticism. What is your view?

A: Brook's Mahabharata was the result of nine years' preparation. It was a lengthy and expensive project. It not only enabled French (and thus Western) audiences to get to know one of India's great works, but it also gave this legend a universal dimension.

Although Peter Brook has no oriental background, his transposition of the material was not exoticism, even if the most conservative Indian circles were discomfited by this presentation. There's nothing surprising in this--otherwise we would have to refrain from staging any of Shakespeare's works outside England. It is not the idea of adaptation per se that we should judge, but the quality of what the creative artist brings to the adaptation.

Commissioning a contemporary Japanese Noh play for Avignon is also a way of encouraging artistic creation. It may be surprising for Japanese and French theatrical circles alike, but we have to attempt such endeavors, otherwise Noh will be nothing more than a museum piece.

Western opera does not find its renewal in the librettos or in the musical scores, but in new productions. Why not do the same for Peking Opera? That's something for me to discuss with [Peking Opera performer] Mr. Li Pao-chun.

An arts festival, not a patchwork

Q: This kind of international cultural exchange, or so-called "intercultural performance," seems to be today's artistic trend. How do you define this diverse phenomenon?

A: I think we should avoid a proliferation of so- called "international" productions which try to attract a poorly defined audience, and to sign themselves up for a round of "patchwork" festivals. I believe we should present the public with a more coherent series of performances from a single country or a group of countries, which relate the history of that region's performing arts, ranging from traditional forms (folk) to classical cultures, up to and including modern or contemporary forms. In this way audiences can follow the genesis of the performing arts, and can better understand their point of departure and present state. We must both honor the old masters and support new creative artists. We must not separate the past from the present.

Contemporary Legend Theater's Oresteia brings together an American director, Peking Opera players and the script of a Greek tragedy. The expressive techniques used arouse d much discussion.（photo by Lin Meng-shan）

Sometimes the traditional and the avant-garde are actually two sides of the same coin. Our picture shows U Theater's Floating Leaves. （courtesy of U Theater）

A girl in historical costume and a modern man--Cloud Gate Dance Theater's Nine Songs attracted much attention at foreign arts festivals. （photo by Liu Chen-hsiang）

Bernard Faivre d'Arcier believes that for art to be universal, it must have deep local roots. Pictured here is Lin Li-chen's dance work Legend.（photo by Tsai Te-mao）

In 1998, a series of performances from Taiwan will be on the program at Avignon. Will they present the diversity of our culture? （photo by L. Pinsard）