Q. At the end of this month, the 82 senior legislators [elected in 1947 in mainland China] will retire as required by law. What significance does this have in the development of constitutional democracy in our country?
A. This is the passing of the old era, and the coming of a new era, and symbolizes the real implementation of constitutional reform. A truly democratic nation must have an assembly with a foundation of voter support to exercise the power of overseeing the government. In the past, because of our special political situation, the legislators elected for the First Legislative Term [in 1947] did not get changed through selections, and although supplementary legislators were added to fill in the gap, this was not a normal situation for democratic politics.
On December 31, 1991, after the senior legislators retire in their entirety, first the 126 supplementary legislators elected in 1989 will take responsibility until the end of next year, and after the legislators of the Second Legislative Term [scheduled to be chosen in elections in Winter 1992] have entered the Legislative Yuan at the end of next year, we will have fully entered upon the path of normal parliamentary politics.
No More Excuses
Q. What preparations should legislators themselves make for the complete assumption of responsibility by the supplementary legislators? What kind of expectations should the people have toward the Legislative Yuan in the future?
A. First, supplementary legislators have to understand that political responsibility will be much heavier in the future, and it will be essential to practice strict self-restraint. It is undeniable that because there were a great number of senior legislators in the Legislative Yuan, when efficiency was low on handling the agenda, or when policy decisions were criticized, the supplementary legislators could slough off responsibility on the senior legislators. In the future there will be no excuses, and we must accept responsibility ourselves for the good or bad results of any law, so it will be necessary to have the courage to accept political responsibility, and to devote ourselves even more to studying bills and policies, in order to raise the quality of political dialogue.
Another immediate problem is that the attendance rate of supplementary legislators has never been very good. In the past, the senior legislators could hold down the fort so the meetings would not have to be aborted; if next year the supplementary legislators once again do not improve their attendance situation, I'm afraid meetings will often have to be called off because of the lack of a quorum. This means it will be impossible to bring contentious bills to a vote, which will lower the efficiency with which legislative business is handled. So I also hope they can understand this point and have the courage to attend; that's the only way bills related to the people's well-being can "get out of the oven."
Q. You spoke of necessary self-restraint by supplementary legislators. In the last two years, we saw physical confrontations in the Legislative Yuan become international news; do you think this will improve in the future?
A. I believe they will decrease to the minimum level. In the past, in order to protest the unreasonable structure of the parliament, or perhaps just to become famous rapidly, supplementary legislators didn't even spare the use of strong physical action to make their appeals, and the opposition party even used this tactic to boycott and disrupt the legislative agenda, in order to get what they wanted or to get political bargaining resources. Now, the objects of their protests--senior legislators--will retire, and there will no longer be any reason to protest voting procedures, so there is one less central focus of conflict.
Another aspect is that the public and the media first looked at the fighting as if they were at the theater, and the legislators were happy to go along. But if a play is repeated too many times the public will start to hate it. In the media and the public, there has been a wave of protests slowly building about the legislature's immobility to pass legislation. And this is dangerous for the legislators.
A Challenge for Parliamentary Culture
Q. It's great that we can look forward to a decline of physical confrontation, but what kind of impact will the overnight change have?
A. The culture and ethics of the Parliament will face severe tests. Before the end of 1989, for forty years senior legislators always constituted a majority of the Legislative Yuan, and they established certain parliamentary patterns of behavior and culture.
With the retirement of the 82 remaining senior legislators, the old patterns will collapse and new ways of doing things have yet to be established. Among the current 126 supplementary legislators. freshmen legislators account for 65%, creating the problem of how to create new parliamentary ethics. Because if the new legislators do not understand the contents and culture of the assembly, this will affect the efficiency and quality with which the agenda is acted upon. At the end of next year, there will be another election for legislators; if the turnover rate is still this high, the problem will be even more serious. Overseas, for example, if the turnover rate in the US Senate reaches 10%, or exceeds 20% in the Japanese Diet, then the assemblies will begin to get tense.
Q. So how can the Legislative Yuan cope?
A. First, I think that next year when the political parties make their nominations, they should choose people with training in parliamentary politics. Second, before the new legislators enter the Legislative Yuan, it would be best to first hold seminars or lectures, with the experienced legislators guiding the new representatives, to give them a bit of understanding of the functions, rules, and culture of the parliament. Moreover, the representatives with long tenures should be respected. In the past, because the senior legislators did not have to face reelection, there was a clear division with the supplementary legislators who faced the pressure of elections, so the Legislative Yuan simply didn't build up the principle of respect for those more senior. But if common courtesy is not retained in one place, there will be chaos, and you can't have orderly functions. For example in the US, the word of a senior Congressman carries a lot of weight, and gets a lot of attention.
The Legislative Yuan also needs to speed up the installation of all kinds of hardware and software, like an appropriate activities center, complete information and communications, printed data, and legislative assistants; only in this way can legislators rationally engage in political dialogue, rather than just relying on on-the-spot reactions to handle problems.
Sentiment, but Not Understanding
Q. At present, although many people are happy to see the supplementary legislators taking over, there are still two concerns: One is that hereafter the understanding legislators have of the mainland will decline, which will influence policy toward the mainland. The second is that following the intensity of elections, money and factions will intrude even more deeply. What do you think?
A. My personal opinion is that although the senior legislators were born on the mainland, and had a deep feeling toward the mainland, they didn't necessarily understand the mainland. Their knowledge of the mainland ended at their impressions of forty years ago, and in the intervening years they have not gone back, nor have they been able to get information. In contrast, although the sentimental attachment to the mainland among the new generation of legislators is relatively weak, they know how to get information from a variety of channels. For example, currently some supplementary legislators periodically go to the mainland to observe, they actually understand the current situation of the mainland even better. Thus, I think that the only thing the senior legislators will take away with them is sentimental attachment. There won't be a reduction in understanding of the mainland, and of course there will be no effect on mainland policy. on mainland policy.
As for the entry of interest groups, this is unavoidable, because every time any bill is formulated, the relevant interest groups will naturally do their utmost to gain benefits for themselves. The Legislative Yuan is the final decision-making institution, and will inevitably become a battleground for interest groups.
There's nothing wrong with this, because as far as the parliament itself is concerned, we need to communicate with interest groups, and only then can we set laws and policies more accurately. The problem is this: There must be laws to set norms and standards for these kinds of lobbying activities. Relations between the legislators and interest groups should be transparent. In this respect our laws require reworking.
Speaking again of factions, in fact there are factions in the political parties of all advanced nations. Moreover, skill at the use of factional activities makes it even more possible to effectively communicate, coordinate, and reach consensus; there will only be confrontation if things get off track. So we only need to learn from the advanced nations, and use political concepts and responsibility as the foundation of factional activities, and I'm confident that these secondary groupings will gradually move in a healthy direction, and become a help to democratic politics.
Objectivity, Fairness, Humor
Q. The two years that you have served as vicepresident of the Legislative Yuan have also been the period of the greatest change in the domestic political situation and of the most intense conflicts in the Legislative Yuan. How have you felt about this for the past two years?
A. Because the chairman of the Legislative Yuan has almost no power to decide, added to the fact that there have been a lot of protest incidents, it has been especially difficult these last two years to preside over the Yuan meetings. I have just been trying to play a fair, objective, and occasionally humorous role, to balance and mediate the confrontational situation between the supplementary legislators and the senior legislators, in order to keep the agenda moving smoothly.
I have also personally been trying to improve the hardware and software equipment in the Legislative Yuan. More than fifty items of improvement have been completed in my hands, including increasing the staff, adding to the information system, and so on, to assist the legislators to raise the level of political dialogue.
Of course, a thorough overhaul will take time. Do you know how serious is the shortage of hardware at the Legislative Yuan? There isn't enough space, and we have to rent space from another agency to serve as staff rooms for the legislators, but it's still not enough. Right now one staff room is only about 150 square feet, and can only hold three people. If a legislator has even one more assistant, they have no place to work. We also need a library, print center, and conference room, but we haven't even got the land. We have to come up with ways to improve all these.
A New Era
Q. Facing the new situation in the Legislative Yuan, the responsibilities of the next speaker will be even heavier. What kind of role do you think the next speaker should play?
A. In the past was authoritarian rule, but now it's a pluralized society. However, the speaker's mindset and viewpoints must change with the times. The next president must not only serve as the transmitter of continuity between the old and new parliamentary cultures and the supporter of the ethic of parliamentary seniority, he must also serve as the mediator in power distribution as well as a stimulus to rules for the new power games. I feel the next president should content himself with these four roles.
[Picture Caption]
"The departure of the senior legislators means a new climate for the parliament. But it also means a new way of doing things has to be established," says Legislative Yuan Vice-President Liu Sung-fan.
Caught between the senior legislators and the supplementary legislators, Vice-President Liu (first on right) says that he has tried to play a fair, objective and occasionally humorous role during the last two years (photo by Chen Kai-chu).
Liu Sung-fan has enjoyed wide support in the Legislative Yuan and is seen as a candidate to be the next president.
Caught between the senior legislators and the supplementary legislators, Vice-President Liu （first on right） says that he has tried to play a fair, objective and occasionally humorous role during the last two years （photo by Chen Kai-chu）.
Liu Sung-fan has enjoyed wide support in the Legislative Yuan and is seen as a candidate to be the next president.
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