An Interview with Robert Maxwell, New Zealand Minister of Immigration

After the previous great relaxation in its immigration policy, New Zealand now gives the impression of closing its doors again. Does New Zealand really not welcome Asian immigrants? Mr. Frank Lin, Representative at the Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Wellington, arranged for us to interview the Honourable Roger Maxwell MP, New Zealand's Minister of Immigration, in his home town of New Plymouth on North Island. That day he was attending an election fundraising lunch organized by local Chinese.

Q: A lot of Asian immigrants have come to New Zealand. What positive and negative effects has their coming here had?

A: The new migrants-and a lot of them have come from Asia-have made a very good contribution to New Zealand. They are investing in new businesses, they have brought capital into the country, and they are also helping New Zealand trade with the growing Asian economies. We see that as a very important part of New Zealand's future. Traditionally New Zealand has had 80% of its trade with European countries like Great Britain, but now the balance is turning away from Europe and towards Asia. That's why in government we have developed what we call the Asia 2000 Foundation, which is designed to fund and encourage the relationship between New Zealanders and Asian countries, and help develop and foster that trade, which is important for every country.

Q: Are there any negative effects you can point to?

A: I don't believe there are any negative effects, but unfortunately recently one of our local politicians has spoken out against migrants, and Asian migrants in particular. But I believe that is only to have some political gain. The government is very concerned about that, because he's just deliberately used the migrants as pawns to try and gain political popularity. So as minister of both immigration and business development I am putting a lot of effort into showing that what he has said he would do if he was in government is not practical. New Zealanders will not stand for the tight control that he was going to put on migrants, and New Zealand needs the migrants as much as some of the migrants want to come to New Zealand.

We want to highlight the success stories of new Chinese migrants, to show the contribution they are making to New Zealand.

Q: That's one of the reasons why we've come here to report on New Zealand. We will also be telling the story of Chew Chong, a Chinese who came here last century.

A: Well that's right, Chew Chong is a classic example, where one of New Zealand's main export industries was started by one of the early Chinese people that came and settled in New Zealand. His family are now settled in New Zealand and are architects, doctors, and so on. They are doing all the things that European families have done, and they are just accepted as part of our society.

The stick and the carrot

Q: But your government now asks new immigrants to pass an English examination. Some people feel this is also a kind of ethnic discrimination. Do you think so?

A: No, and that was not the intention. There always has been an English test standard that was required: it used to be carried out by the interviewing immigration officer. Now we require an independent test, an internationally accepted test which is designed to meet the same standard of comprehension. It does not require fluency, but it does require people to understand and read things like emergency notices in the phone book and that sort of thing if they get into trouble.

The other reason is that we are lucky-because there are so many people keen to come to New Zealand-that we can select people, and English is obviously one of the things they need to have to be able to quickly settle and develop a business or get a job. That's why we've introduced that change in the criteria. It is not anti-Asian, although I do recognize that it will be more difficult for people who don't live in an English-speaking society. But we've done two things: if you're a business person who's got a lot of money and a lot of skill, we've kept the door open-they can come in even though their English isn't up to the required standard, but they have to put down a bond. If they reach the standard within three months, they'll get most of their money back, but if they haven't made an effort to learn English in the first 12 months, they will forfeit the money. That's what we call a carrot and a stick.

That money can go towards the education of immigrants and their family members, otherwise a lot of New Zealanders will say, well why should we pay for migrants who can't speak English and haven't made any effort? So the new migrants have got to look at it from the perspective of the people that pay taxes in New Zealand as well.

Q: Some immigrants complain that the government didn't help them to overcome some problems. For instance, professional qualifications from Taiwan are not recognized here. I understand there are about 1000 doctors from Taiwan who can't practice here. Do you have any policy to help them?

Skilled people welcome

A: Well, we're looking at that issue now, because clearly if people feel comfortable in the new community, they will always make a bigger contribution than otherwise would be the case. We've changed the policy slightly now, so that people have to get registration or show that they are able to get registration, before they can be accepted in New Zealand, if they want to be a doctor.

But our standards have always been very high, and are linked to the British system, and we have an independent medical council which assesses doctors' competency. We want to maintain the standard, but we are also looking at having more courses for foreign doctors to enter, so that they can test and meet the standard.

Q: What kind of people do you need?

A: Well we certainly need people with technical skills. For instance, we've got a growing electronics industry and software industry, so there's a big demand for engineers in New Zealand. Those are the areas where the greatest demand is right now.

Q: From the news we know that the number of immigrants from Asia has fallen hugely. Is this good for New Zealand?

A: I'm disappointed the numbers have dropped off so rapidly, but I'm not surprised, for this reason: when we introduced our new policy in 1991, the number of immigrants dropped off quite significantly-very similar to what's happened in the last few months-as people started to study what was happening, and came to understand the new criteria. The other reason of course is that the new English language test requires them to study and sit the examination, and that's all taken time. I'm getting reports now that the numbers are picking up again.

Q: So you won't relax the regulations?

A: No, it's not my intention to, because we've put a cap on the number that will come in in the next 12 months at 35,000, so we've got a process to manage all that.

Q: What's the ideal size of the total New Zealand population?

A: Well, that's very debatable, but we've only got 3.6 million people in New Zealand. It's a country the size of Japan, which has 130 million, or Great Britain, which has 60 million. I think probably 5 million people would be a very comfortable size for New Zealand, and it wouldn't destroy the whole environment we have here. But I would expect it would be another 20 years before we ever get near that level. But I think importantly, I want to encourage more new migrants to shift out of Auckland into places like New Plymouth or Christchurch, so as not to put pressure on the big cities.