集思廣益.理性議事——新聞局「三大法案」座談會紀實

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1989 / 2月

文‧謝淑芬整理


近年來,政府全力進行法治革新,在逐步調整政治結構的過程中,被簡稱為「三大法案」的「動員勘亂時期公職人員選舉罷免法部分條文修正」、「非常時期人民團體法草案」與「第一屆資深中央民意代表退職條例」,極受朝野重視。


為了使之盡早通過立法,付諸實施,以確實保障民主憲政的推行,行政院新聞局邵玉銘局長特別舉辦座談會邀請非法案制定者、也不是反對者的專家,請他們從較公正、客觀的角度來討論這三個法案,以期讓民眾更深入了解並匯成共識。

元月五日行政院新聞局邵玉銘局長主持了此座談會,國內各大專院校的十九位政治、社會學教授齊聚一堂,共同討論「選罷法」、「人團法」、「退職條例」三項法案。

台大政治系教授呂亞力首先發言,他認為「人團法」的本身內容很好,如果政黨的成立採取報備制,應該可為各政黨接受。「選罷法」則需要根據經驗的累積,逐步加以修改,才能漸臻完善。至於「資深民代退職條例」最麻煩,除考慮政治與法律兩個現實層面,還是一個相當困難而複雜的歷史問題。

他解釋這些民代已任職四十年,要強迫他們退休,於憲法無據,因此全國人民都要體諒這個歷史包袱,用溫和、理性的方式解決,才能使社會的腳步前進。

最後他強調,這三個條例晚一天解決,許多公共政策問題就會被延宕、堆積在立法院一天,最終吃虧的還是人民。

師大公民訓育系教授兼訓導長謝瑞智也認為,這三個法案中以「退職條例」最為重要,因為「退職條例」是為了改革國會,奠定憲法的民主精神。「人團法」是將所有政黨和人民團體組織的活動納入法律規範,使他們的行動於法有據。「選罷法」則為了加強公權力,維持選舉的公正與公平。

謝瑞智教授特別指出,以當前國內外政治情勢來說,台灣地區的穩定成長,是保障兩千萬人民幸福最有效且可行的途徑。因此政治改革應在穩定中逐漸進行與成長,否則任何政治、經濟或社會的動亂都將引發不可預知的後果。

政治大學公共行政學系教授雷飛龍則認為在退職條例中,我們應肯定資深民代四十年來對國家的貢獻,也應保障他們退職後的生活,使我們的國會能理性而溫和地完成新陳代謝。「人團法」的主要目的是規範社會和政治團體,目前台灣地區成立將近廿個政黨,不如採取報備制,將之全部納入規範中。至於「選罷法」立法不妨從寬,執法卻須嚴格。 東吳大學政治系系主任郭仁孚則認為,這三個法案中雖以「退職條例」最複雜,但「人團法」卻最重要。因為台灣解除戒嚴之後,最重要的改變是開放黨禁,成為多黨競爭的政黨政治。

目前「人團法」受民進黨爭議之處在於應否納入國安法三原則,即根據中華民國憲法、不得主張共產主義、不得分裂國土。郭仁孚說:「競爭要有場地,遊戲要有規則」,這三個原則是我國基本憲政體制的保障,是所有國民都應有的共識,因此絕對必須納入「人團法」。

台大政治系教授曹俊漢表示,一般人在「退職條例」的爭論中還忽略了一點,這個條例在國民黨、民進黨和全國人民的熱烈討論中,似乎漠視了當事人:資深民代的存在。「整個立法過程中,他們被動的坐在冷板凳上,呼之即來,揮之即去,因此加深他們的抗拒心理」,曹俊漢說,錢或文字未必能滿足他們,與其在條例中肯定他們,不如讓他們參與立法,才能盡快解決問題。 政大政治系教授李國雄還提出兩個政治觀點,他認為政治的原則是有所讓,有所不讓,任何一個政治性的法案並不會完全利於一個政黨,也不會對別的政黨全然不利,而且目前我們只是在進行政治改革,而不是革命,因此,必須在尊重傳統的基礎上做漸進的改革,才不會破壞政治秩序。

其次他認為政治性的法律沒有絕對的公平,也非不能修改的,只要在精神和原則上能共同接受的話,不必太斤斤計較細節。

政大三民主義研究所客座副教授邵宗海換個角度從經濟層面出發,他認為國內的許多問題諸如環保、勞工、乃至政治,都相當區域性,只有經濟關係整個台灣的氣運,因為經濟吸納了台灣大部分的人口,所以他希望大家不要把眼光限於這三個法案上,為了這些法案浪費大量的人力和資源。尤其政黨應該把眼光放遠,別在無謂的爭執中喪失了民眾的期許,否則,一旦因為這些法案的延宕,導致許多公共政策無法通過與運作,國家經濟走下坡,很可能會輸掉整個寶島。 台大政治系副教授彭錦鵬說「人團法」和「選罷法」目前並無重大原則性的爭議,只是枝節問題,可由立法的技術性解決。只有「退職條例」,是政治發展的主要環節,政治發展必須掌握時機。「從民國七十五年至今,這三年可說是中國政治有始以來,唯一施行民主政治最有希望的時間」,因此如何使民主政治儘快進入軌道,是全民一致的願望,兩黨應該更開放、前瞻,以人民的利益來衡量,所以不妨先讓這些法案通過,再看結果如何,讓人民來裁判才合理。 政治大學法律研究所教授蘇永欽從法律的觀點出發,也認為民進黨可以先讓「退職條例」通過,再看結果如何,因為「退職條例」是一種措施性的法律而非遊戲規則,是為了解決某一階段的某一具體問題,亦即這個條例主要針對第一屆的中央民代,而非所有的中央民代,民進黨何不讓執政黨開出支票,看能不能在三、四年之內達到全面改選,到時候民眾自然會判斷。 邵玉銘局長在最後也暫時拋開局長的身分,以他從事學術研究多年的學者立場,提出幾個感想。

首先他認為民主政治是責任政治,執政黨政府提出法案,就要負起政治責任,如果不予通過,民眾又如何知道它能否解決問題?其次,這項憲政體制的問題,應根據體制內的法律來解決,不能超乎體制之外,否則會產生以暴制暴的後遺症。再者,根據現代各國憲政歷史的經驗,憲法的日趨完美是漸進成長的,我國憲政成長的歷史尚短,經驗也不足,因此也許不理想,但必須隨著國家社會的整體進步而成長,激烈的手段只會導致更多後遺症。畢竟,解決政治問題的原則是兩害相權取其輕,這也是我國今日改革憲政體制的原則。

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近期文章

EN

Collecting Thoughts on the "Three Major Bills"

Daisy Hsieh /tr. by Phil Newell

In recent years, the government has been actively promoting legal reform. In this process, the "three major bills" (comprising bills for amendment of the election and recall laws of the Temporary Provisions for the Period of Rebellion, a draft bill for civic organizations during the period of emergency, and the regulations for retirement of senior legislators from the first parliamentary session) have been the focus of both government and public attention.


In order to help pass these bills as early as possible and secure the promotion of constitutional democratic government, Government Information Office Director-General Shaw Yu-ming held a special seminar. Specialists and scholars who had neither a hand in making up the bills nor were already opposed were asked to discuss these bills from a relatively fair, objective angle, in the hopes of raising public awareness and contributing toward a consensus.

On January 5, nineteen political scientists and sociologists from Taiwan's major institutes and campuses met at the GIO conference room, with Director-General Shaw as moderator, where they discussed the bills on election and recall, civic organizations, and retirement of senior legislators.

Taiwan University Professor Lu Ya-li spoke first. He considered that the contents of the organization law were very good in themselves; if the open registration system is adopted for the establishment of political parties, then it would be acceptable to all. The election law requires some amendment based on accumulated experience. The retirement law is the most problematic; besides practical political and legal considerations, there is the complex historical problem.

He explained that these senior representatives have already served forty years. There is no basis in the constitution for forcing them to retire, so people should accept this historical burden and seek moderate, reasonable solutions--only then can society progress. Finally he emphasized that a delay in these laws means a delay in dealing with other public policy in the Legislative Yuan, with the public the ultimate losers.

Hsieh Zui-chi of National Taiwan Normal University believes the retirement law to be most important, because it involves reforming the parliament and establishing the foundation for the democratic spirit of the constitutional rule of law. The organization law is to give political parties and private associations a basis in law, while the election law aims at strengthening public authority to ensure fairer elections. Professor Hsieh argued that stable growth is the best guarantee of the fortunes of the island's 20 million people. Political, economic, or social chaos could have unanticipated consequences.

Lei Fei-lung of National Chengchi University believes that, in the retirement law, we should affirm the contributions of the senior legislators and guarantee their post-retirement lives. The organization law's main aim is to standardize social and political associations. Currently Taiwan has nearly 20 political parties. It would be better to have the open registration system and bring all of them within the standards. In the election law, there's no harm in making it more lenient; it's enforcement should be made stricter.

Soochow University's Kuo Jen-fu sees the organization law as most important because multi-party politics is now taking shape. The main objection of the Democratic Progressive Party is to the inclusion of the three principles of the National Security Law (must respect the constitution, cannot advocate Communism, cannot divide the national territory) as conditions for political parties. Kuo said: "Games must have rules." These three principles are the guarantee of the basic constitutional structure, should be the consensus for all citizens, and absolutely must be included in the organization law.

Tsao Chun-han of NTU suggests that in all the fuss over the retirement law the senior legislators themselves have been overlooked. "In the whole process they just sit passively, ignored, and this deepens their resistance." Tsao said that neither words nor money will satisfy them. Praising them in the law won't be as effective in getting it passed as involving them in the process.

Chengchi University's Li Kuo-hsiung says that currently we are undertaking political reform, not revolution, and it is necessary to reform on the basis of respecting tradition; only then will political order be undamaged. He further opined that there is no absolute fairness in political laws, and nothing that can't be amended. What's important is consensus on the spirit and principles; there is no need to be exacting on small details.

Shao Tsung-hai of Chengchi University took the economic perspective. He considered environment, labor, and political problems as sectoral. Only the economy affects the fate of all Taiwan, and he hoped political parties would look ahead and not disappoint the expectations of the people in meaningless disputes. Procrastinations on these laws could lead to failure to pass or effect public policy. If the economy goes downhill, the whole island could be lost.

Peng Chin-peng of NTU argued that the retirement law most urgently affects political development. Calling the last three years "the period of the greatest hope for the implementation of democracy since the origin of Chinese politics," he said getting democracy on track is the unanimous hope of the people and urged political parties to concede on the laws and let the people judge the results.

Su Yung-chin of Chengchi University took a legal perspective, urging the DPP to allow the retirement law to pass since it is a specific measure to solve a concrete problem, not a "rule of the game" affecting all legislators. See if the ruling party can achieve complete reelection of the parliament within three or four years, at that time the people will judge.

Finally, Shaw Yu-ming stepped out of the role of GIO chief and into his former role of scholar to express his views. He argued that, first, democratic politics means the politics of responsibility. If the ruling party's proposed laws are not passed, how can the people know if it can really solve problems? Second, problems of the constitutional system should be solved by laws within the system; going outside the system could lead to a cycle of violence. Also, based on other nations' histories, improvement of the constitution is a gradual process. The ROC's constitutional history is short. Perhaps the con stitution is not ideal, but it should grow with society. Extreme measures could create aftereffects. Finally, the principle for resolving political problems is to select the lesser evil; this is the current principle for reform of the ROC constitutional structure.

 

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